Author Topic: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape  (Read 9894 times)

Guilmon1998

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News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« on: September 10, 2015, 08:09:40 pm »
During the Mute Festival in Tlaquepaque Mexico, i had the great opportunity and honor to get an a meeting with Daniel Miller, the founder of Mute Records after the DJ set in the festival with Vince Clarke.
i asked to him about the demo tape of the Some Great Reward's album, I asked whether they were genuine or a fake.
he was confused about that topic, fortunately i got with me my MP3 player with the songs of the tape, quickly he could recognize them.
he said that the tape is really genuine, but someone unknown stole the master tape from the pre-mixes and demos library of Mute after the studio sessions of the Some Great Reward album in Music Works in England & Hansa Mischraum in Berlin on 1984.
They were actually two tapes, the first tape was Alan Wilder demos and second, with demos made with Martin and Dave on vocals.
he tell me the stories about that season by his own words:
during 1984 after the single People Are People were released in March of that year, Alan Wilder, bring to them a tape with un-named songs, 4 tracks to be exactly. all the songs in my opinion sounds good, but Martin and the others didn't like some songs, but just one track was choosed for be in the upcoming album, that was If You Want, in that week that song didn't have a name, but later during the recording session in Berlin the name were added.

all the songs of that date were written and sung by Alan Wilder during 1983-1984 some of the during the tour to promote the album Construction Time Again of 1983, a lot of people said those songs were of the bands: Red Flag or I Start Counting, but that's not true, nobody of those bands wrote that songs,

I Start Counting was a band which was with the Mute Label during the mid-80's

so the question is who stole the tape? nobody knows that but a second generation tape was uploaded on the internet the full tape in a really bad quality by parts.
but the people and fans added to the un-named song a name, a lot of them based in the chorus of the songs
here are some descriptions of the songs based on the information of Daniel Miller, all the songs have a particular acent.

Violence: recorded in 1983, a lot of people said was a song of Red Flag, I Start Counting or a Martin Gore demo, the song was written by Alan Wilder in 1984, was demoed during the session of Construction Time Again, but was not included in the album included with a demo of Martin Gore, later the song was revealed again in 1984, but the song had the same destiny.

If You Want: the only track of the tape that was on the album, a lot of people confuse that song as a fan cover, the song convinced to the band for be in. was sung by Dave Gahan, the song was played only in the tour to promote the Album during 1984-1985 the demo is so strange and so dramatic, very different than the album version

I Feel No Guilt: the most famous song of this tape, was confused as a demo of Martin Gore or Red Flag, a very rythmic song, with mystery ambience, was never officially released

Until You Saw The Sea: sometimes called as Until You've Sown The Seed or Cliché due to the song's tongue-in-cheek lyrics. a very rythmic song a bit dramatic, amazing sound


as last info, i asked to Daniel a song called "All By Themselves" a Martin Gore's demo It's a very gloomy, depressing sounding song with vocals subdued and difficult to comprehend, he told me about that song was going to be the b-side of And Then... and was planned to be the third single of the album but the single was never released due the construction tour in 1983 was coming very soon, and later the idea was abandoned

in other news Vince Clarke said that the two demo tapes of summer 1980 are not a fake... i will post the info about it soon.

Milda

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2015, 07:23:36 am »
Interesting information, thank you!
I have always believed that these are real Alan's demos...

Ronny

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2015, 07:50:04 am »
Great job! Thank your very much for that!
I was always wondering what the deal with "all by themselves" was. Would have loved to hear that produced properly. Who knows, maybe it will be resurrected like "slow".  :P

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 08:07:35 am »
Very interesting information, thanks so much for posting your findings! I will update the wiki page soon.

I'm getting a serviced & upgraded Nakamichi Dragon deck soon and I will also have the opportunity to retransfer the second generation copy of the demo tape. Note that speed correction was applied (slowed down 2%) to my original transfer, and I'm not really sure if it's really required, I just adjusted it to match the speed of the various bootleg versions floating around.

Can't wait to hear what you've found regarding the Vince Clarke demos! Of course we knew they were not fakes - IIRC, Vince confirmed via Twitter they are genuine, but maybe I am mistaken.

EDIT: Some confusion:

You said about "Violence" that "the song was written by Alan Wilder in 1984" - did you mean 1983? Surely the song couldn't have been recorded in 1983 but written in 1984 :D

Also, you refer to the fourth track as "Until You Saw The Sea" - but the title "Until You've Sown The Seed" makes much more sense, and that is what the song is titled as on the wiki. "Until You Saw The Sea" is what the track is sometimes referred to as (due to misheard lyrics) and should not be its primary title.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 10:23:43 am by Towncivilian »
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discotraxxx

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 04:09:22 pm »
Hi,

just to avoid any error, we are talking here of three tapes :

- Martin Gore demo tape (surfaced song, sung by Martin : "Lie To Me")
- Alan Wilder demo tape (whole 4 track tape surfaced, sung by Alan : "Violence", If You Want", "I Feel No Guilt", "Until You Saw The Seed")
- "Some Great Reward" pre-mix (two surfaced songs, sung by Dave : "Stories Of Old" and "Master And Servant")

As far as we know, no other songs exist ?
I don't think that demo tracks with Dave on vocals exist ?

And Daniel listed to the MP3 of the 75m of demo tracks torrented on DIME by Matt, right ?

The "stolen" tape of "Some Great Reward" pre-mix was the full album or only a few songs (like the ones we have) ?
In my opinion pre-mix tapes are commonly available for most of the bands, and those kind of tapes were done and "lost" by engineers and band members easily.

See You

Vince

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 05:20:53 pm »
Vince,

Yes, you are referring to the correct three tapes, I believe. I have not heard of the existence of other leaked tracks from SGR. Any track with Dave on vocals would have to be a rough mix or studio pre-mix, as Dave did not write any songs for Depeche Mode until 2005's "Playing The Angel". It is possible he attempted to submit songs he may have written during that time period of course, maybe something is mentioned in an interview? Perhaps @Angelinda will be able to help.

I doubt Daniel Miller had time to listen to the entire demo compilation. If anything, it would have been a good idea to perhaps show him the wiki page with the demo & studio pre-mix excerpts, and see which ones he may be interested in or ask him questions about specific ones.

I do not know any of the lineage information for the "Lie To Me", "Stories Of Old", and "Master And Servant" alternate versions. For all three, the copies floating around seem to have MiniDisc in their lineage, so the tracks may have surfaced around 1998 or thereabouts when usage of MiniDisc started becoming common.

Also, Alan answered a question regarding demos & pre-mixes in general on Shunt Q&A:

Quote
From: Alan Woody
E-mail: [email protected]

I've been seeing demo versions of DM songs turn up on bootleg recordings and on the internet lately. Do you have any idea how these recordings got into the hands of the public? I would imagine that Martin would be reluctant to pass around tapes to just anyone. Were these stolen copies? Did he give them to his girlfriend? Were they copied by someone in the studio looking to make an extra buck?

Copies of demos and rough mixes are made up for all sorts of people (from band members to record company people, video directors, collaborators etc.) and invariably end up in the hands of fans and bootleggers. There's not much you can do about it. I have never given away any of my copies of Martin's demos and yet I don't now possess all of them - where did they go?

Furthermore, the information sheet photos I received from the collector who lent me the tapes list another tape labelled "Al's Demos" containing 7 tracks; see attached photo. This presumably is referring to Alan's four demos and possibly three other Alan tracks? Maybe they are the demos for the three "Construction Time Again" songs Alan wrote, but "1984" is specifically written. "In Your Memory" could be one of the tracks, but I would think it would be listed on the sheet as the title is known. Perhaps there are three other unnamed tracks we don't know about? Note that the collector does not have a copy of this tape, so I was unable to transfer it.

Also listed on other pages are the demos for "Enjoy The Silence", "Memphisto", "Sibeling", and "Interlude #3" (the final one is probably a pre-mix), the "Perversion" demo tape (Violator), and the Black Celebration demos. The collector does not have these tapes either.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 05:56:33 pm by Towncivilian »
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Angelinda

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 06:05:44 pm »
Yes, you are referring to the correct three tapes, I believe. I have not heard of the existence of other leaked tracks from SGR. Any track with Dave on vocals would have to be a rough mix or studio pre-mix, as Dave did not write any songs for Depeche Mode until 2005's "Playing The Angel". It is possible he attempted to submit songs he may have written during that time period of course, maybe something is mentioned in an interview? Perhaps @Angelinda will be able to help.


I don't think Dave seriously tried to submit songs. In 1990, you can hear him say in an interview for MTV that he would not dare to write songs for DM because Martin is so good, although he hopes to one day try his hand at writing. So I don't think he had begun trying to write songs at that point. Then around 1996, he submits the famous "Ocean Song" (later known as "Closer", a B-side for Paper Monsters), which literally contains sounds from the ocean and is probably a result from his heroin-days, but the others don't like it, and while Martin does say that he thinks it's good, it's only because he's still drunk from the night before, and pukes on the floor about a minute after. By 1998, Dave is already jamming and playing with Victor Indrizzo, just for fun. Then in 1999/2000, he can see that Martin is having a writer's block, but he's so bitter about the fact that everyone is so focused on Martin's efforts that he does not bother to submit his own songs for the then-upcoming album. Thus, Paper Monsters is created. I think the Paper Monsters tracks are songs created from 1997 till 2003.

Angelinda

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 07:19:27 pm »
BTW, while looking up that info, I saw this:

EM: Are you happy with the fact that Depeche Mode doesn’t make any of cover version from other people work?
DG: I don’t know. We haven’t thought about that too much. Martin has done cover version for Leonard Cohen tribute album, I did a cover version as well for Roxy Music tribute record recently. I’ve been recently singing with a couple of friends in New York on a project as well. And sometimes I do stuff like that, but I don’t put my name to it. It’s fun to do it, it’s nice to work with other people.
- http://www.dmtvarchives.com/forum/index.php?topic=561.msg11268;topicseen#msg11268

Would be interesting to know if his voice can be heard as a backing vocal on any CD! Maybe we should check out Victor Indrizzo's discography in 1998 sometime...

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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 10:42:07 am »
Somewhat related, since it was mentioned in the first post: Ronny has transcribed the lyrics to "All By Themselves": https://www.depechemode-live.com/wiki/All_By_Themselves

What a creepy song!
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Re: News About Alan Wilder's Demo Tape
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 12:39:32 pm »
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